TechTime with Nathan Mumm

219: Meta's VR Strategy Shift on its Vision Pro Competitor, Nick Espinosa Explains to us About The Terrorgram Collective, as TP-Link Products Have CHINA Written All Over Them. TechTime's Insights with a Dash of Whiskey | Air Date: 8/25 - 8/31/24

• Nathan Mumm • Season 6 • Episode 219

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Ever wondered why Meta might be pulling the plug on its Vision Pro competitor? Join us as we navigate the strategic shifts in the VR landscape and unpack why affordable VR devices could be Meta’s golden ticket. We’ll also tackle a significant security breach at Georgia Tech, offering you crucial tips on safeguarding your social security number, and highlight Lyft’s innovative new pet rides feature. Plus, we explore the surprising correlation between endless web scrolling and rising boredom levels.

In a gripping segment, we welcome Nick Espinosa from Security Fanatics to shed light on the alarming rise of the Terrorgram Collective. Discover how this neo-fascist group exploits Telegram to radicalize individuals globally, posing a grave threat to societal stability. We also bring you the latest on a major cybersecurity incident involving the Chinese hacking group Volt Typhoon and vulnerabilities in TP-Link products, examining the broader geopolitical ramifications of these threats. Our regular features, Mike's mesmerizing moment and the technology fail of the week, make a return, highlighting the recent security woes at Georgia Tech.

Finally, we blend tech history with whiskey appreciation, celebrating International Lottery Day and sharing intriguing facts about Jack Daniels and its founder, Jasper Newton Daniel. And don’t miss our whiskey-tasting review of Jack Daniels' 12-year Tennessee Whiskey Batch 2—a perfect way to cap off an engaging mix of technology insights and a bit of spirited fun.

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Speaker 1:

Broadcasting across the nation, from the East Coast to the West, keeping you up to date on technology while enjoying a little whiskey on the side, with leading edge topics, along with special guests to navigate technology in a segmented, stylized radio program. The information that will make you go mmmm. Pull up a seat, raise a glass with our hosts as we spend the next hour talking about technology for the common person. Welcome to Tech Time Radio with Nathan Mumm.

Nathan Mumm:

Welcome to Tech Time with Nathan Mumm. The show that makes you go technology news of the week. The show for the everyday person talking about technology, broadcasting across the nation with insightful segments on subjects weeks ahead of the mainstream media. We welcome our radio audience of 35 million listeners to an hour of insightful technology news. I'm Nathan Mumm, your host and technologist, with over 30 years of technology expertise. Our co-host, mike Rodea, is in studio today. Mike's an award-winning author and human behavior expert. Now we're live streaming to you on our show on four of the most popular platforms, including YouTube, twitchtv, facebook and LinkedIn. We encourage you to visit us online at techtimeradiocom and become a Patreon supporter at patreoncom. Forward slash techtimeradio Now. We're friends from different backgrounds, but we bring the best technology show possible weekly for our family, friends and fans to enjoy. We're glad to have Odi, our producer, at the control panel today. Welcome everyone. Let's start today's show.

Speaker 1:

Now on today's show.

Nathan Mumm:

Today on Tech Time with Nathan Mumm, buckle up as we dive into the latest tech news and stories. Here's what we have coming up for you on the show today. We'll take a look at the security lapse at Georgia Tech and what it means to your data. We'll guide you in how to check if your social security number has been part of a data breach. And, in lighter news, lyft lets you bring your furry friends with them on their new pet rides feature. We'll explore the endless web and video scrolling might cause you to be more bored than you think, not less.

Nathan Mumm:

To lead off the day, we're going to discuss Meta's surprising decision to cancel its competitors to the Apple Vision Pro. I think it's a brilliant idea and I'll explain why. Plus, nick Espinoza from Security Fanatics will join us to discuss topics emerging from the threat of Terrogram. In addition, of course, we have our standard features, including Mike's mesmerizing moment, our technology fail of the week and a possible Nathan Nugget. And, of course, our pick of the day whiskey tasting to see if our selected whiskey picks get zero, one or two thumbs up by the end of the show. But now let's move into the latest headlines in the world of technology.

Speaker 1:

Here are our top technology stories of the week.

Nathan Mumm:

Story number one Meta cancels its Apple Vision Pro competitor device. Let's go to Corinne Westland for more on the story.

Speaker 3:

Meta seems to have cancelled the development of its premium mixed reality headset, which was to come out sometime in 2027. The headset, a high-resolution micro-OLED screen and advanced optics, seem to be no longer Zuckerberg's primary interest, as Meta has shifted the majority of its research and development staff onto AI. The news about Meta's plan to cancel its premium headset comes from a recent report by the Information. According to the publication, which cites two Meta employees, the company recently held a product review meeting during which employees were told to stop working on the product. Back to you in the studio, back to you in the studio or Meta.

Nathan Mumm:

All right. In a post on Threads, meta's CTO, andrew Bosworth, said we have many prototypes in development at all times, but we don't bring all of them to production. We move forward with some, we pass on others. Decisions like this happen all the time, and stories based on chatter about one individual decision will never get the real picture. However, meta seems to be working still on the Quest 4, which might be launching sometime in 2026 with a price point of approximately $500. A few months ago, a report also hinted that Apple has stopped working on the development of the Vision Pro 2 after facing major setbacks. It also hinted that the decision was made after the Vision Pro suffered by disappointing sales figures and instead working on a pocket-friendly mixed reality headset that won't be as expensive as the original Vision Pro. Now let's talk about this a little bit. What's that? The pocket-friendly?

Mike Gorday:

mixed reality A pocket version? Okay, well, okay, whatever.

Nathan Mumm:

So here's my thinking on this. I actually think Meta may get something right here A pocket version, okay, whatever.

Nathan Mumm:

So here's my thinking on this I actually think Meta may get something right here. So they realize people aren't going to pay $1,500 for a virtual reality system that is essentially right now bing bing, the same unit that you would have for video games and any interaction that you have in that spot itself. Why not? I like Meta's idea. Why not continue to figure out a way to come up with a device that's $500, maybe even $600 or lower, so that the standard consumer can enjoy it? The more of these that get out there. If you're going to go now to the Quest 4, you're still going to have Quest 3 out Quest 2. By addition of lower numbers in the consumer level, I actually think the adoption may work better than Apple's idea of having this luxury product that no one really paid for.

Mike Gorday:

Well, I don't know, I sort of interpret that quote a little bit differently. Where he's talking about having mini-pro, it sounds like, hey, we're scrambling to try and figure out how to pull us out of debt and it's just not working.

Nathan Mumm:

Is that what you got out of that quote? That's what I got out of that.

Mike Gorday:

Okay, all right, so we're going to go and try to. We're going to go and move all of our resources over to stuff everybody else has already conquered and try and get into that field. Okay, Okay.

Nathan Mumm:

That it's not like a very good field to do, then yeah to me.

Mike Gorday:

I'm like, okay, for one. Everybody in the metaverse, that's what they want, right? They want the metaverse, yeah, and they've been pounded by Apple.

Marc Gregoire:

Yeah.

Mike Gorday:

And has Microsoft sort of taken some of that?

Nathan Mumm:

No, because they don't have it. Well, Sony PlayStation has. Sony has a device, All right.

Mike Gorday:

Sony yeah, and they just can't get ahead. You know, they created this idea of becoming this virtual reality existence and they're not really getting anywhere.

Nathan Mumm:

So Apple's smart enough where they say hey, guess what? This was a lose-lose, We'll figure out a way to come out with something cheaper.

Mike Gorday:

Well, I guess if you can't get all your disciples to buy something, then you've got to go like like well, I guess we kind of screwed the pooch on that one.

Nathan Mumm:

That's right, okay, all right, let's go on, though. Now, speaking of pooches, let's go on to story number two uh, lyft is letting you bring your dog with you.

Ody:

Here's how the new pet rides work. Lyft is rolling out a new feature designed to make rides more inclusive for pet owners all across the US. Just in time for National Dog Day, the company announced the launch of Pet Rides, a service allowing riders to bring their pets along for the trip. Riders will pay an additional $4 fee, which goes directly to the driver. This new option aims to ease the stress of traveling with pets, ensuring that riders are matched with drivers who are comfortable with having animals in their cars. Whether it's a quick trip to the vet or a day at the park, pet owners can now bring their furry friends without hassle.

Ody:

To book a Lyft pet ride, users can select the option in the Lyft app. The service is currently limited to one cat or dog per ride, with pets required to be in a carrier, on a blanket or at the owner's feet. While drivers can opt out of participating, they are still required to accommodate service animals and with pet rides, lyft catches up with competitor Uber, which has had the feature since 2021. As part of the rollout for the feature, lyft is partnering with animal shelters and rescue organizations, encouraging pet adoption with special promotions. I think it's pretty neat.

Mike Gorday:

You like that idea? Yeah, you think $4 is enough to give somebody a ride with a dog.

Ody:

No, or a cat. You don't think so Okay.

Mike Gorday:

I don't know. I think about when I had pets and I had to take them to places and you know, nine times out of ten things went okay, okay, but there was always that one trip that makes you want to rethink your entire life choice well, I'm, I'm thinking in the sense of okay, so this this requires owners to have either a carrier or a blanket. A carrier, a blanket or laying at their feet.

Ody:

Yeah, which, if I'm thinking about it, back when I had a dog and I would take them to the dog park. There are so many things that can happen at the dog park, specifically the one in Magnuson where it ends with the trail leads to the beach and dogs usually go in the water.

Ody:

How can I plan for that? I'm trying to think about it. I'm not going to be carrying a carrier with me as I'm out with my furry friend at the dog park and then I'd have to bring like the blanket makes sense. But I'd feel kind of bad that the $4 does not really.

Mike Gorday:

I don't really think, but then again it doesn't justify the cost. I don't know what it's like to be a Lyft driver. Well, I kind of do, but I don't know how, to this extent, to this extent with pets.

Nathan Mumm:

But you know what People are always looking for ways to enjoy their pets right and so if I paid four bucks more to have them go down and take them to the park instead of me walking to the park, I don't know, I think, I think what? It's saying is that we have now come to a point where pets are considered almost at the same stature level as small children.

Ody:

Right, honestly, we have In my generation. Okay, I know, make your faces, mike, but in my generation we look at our pets as our fur babies, so they become our Pets are valuable.

Mike Gorday:

Listen, pets are valuable, our pets as a kid. Pets are pets.

Ody:

And then our plants as our pets. That's become the new thing, mm-hmm yeah. I mean.

Mike Gorday:

I'm always surprised that level of how pets are treated here in the Pacific Northwest are as opposed to where I'm from, so it was a big surprise to me Back in the country. Back in the country. Yeah, I mean, it's not that pets aren't valuable, but they're not humans, and when we attribute human qualities to them, which we do, we create this piece where they become more valuable to us than the pet realm allows us.

Ody:

I mean it's all in good fun.

Mike Gorday:

Actually, it's sometimes not more than good fun. Sometimes it's a little out there.

Ody:

I'm not Lady Gaga and I'm not going to have a babysitter for my pets, but I'll call my little cat, my little cutie, my little baby.

Mike Gorday:

Sure, she's my everything. You know, I'm pretty sure most people talk to their pets.

Ody:

She won't poop a diaper. She won't.

Mike Gorday:

I know people who talk to their boats, so you know that's, that's odd.

Nathan Mumm:

Yeah, that's, thank you Thank you.

Ody:

Thank you, mark. Thank you, that's odd, well, yeah.

Mike Gorday:

Mark's just laughing because you think that's odd.

Ody:

The object is not going to respond to you. If I make little kissy noises at my pet, they're going to like especially a dog. You know they're going to be overjoyed to be around me.

Mike Gorday:

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with valuing a pet and engaging with your pet, but Valuing a pet and engaging with your pet, but when you start believing them to be human-like, that becomes a problem.

Ody:

Well, I think this is fun for Lyft. Way to go Lyft. I'm excited to see all the fun stories on Twitter that are about to come out about this.

Nathan Mumm:

There you go, all right. Well, let's move on to the next story.

Ody:

Yeah, Mike.

Nathan Mumm:

There you go, mike, you ready.

Mike Gorday:

You ready to go? Sure, why not? Okay, so we have a story here that scrolling might make you more bored and not less Okay, wow. So if you were scrolling, you're a TikToker, right?

Nathan Mumm:

I'm a TikToker. Yeah, Do you scroll through your TikToks? I don't. I don't scroll.

Ody:

Yeah, but you're not doom scrolling Up and down, up and down is just an up and down on.

Nathan Mumm:

TikTok just gets you a new video, but I think they're talking about scrolling like left and right when you like, pause stuff.

Mike Gorday:

No, this is like looking at a video and then, even before the video is halfway through, you go to the next video?

Nathan Mumm:

Oh okay, well then, yes, I do that.

Mike Gorday:

Absolutely. I don't know anybody that wouldn't do that. So, yeah, no-transcript. She said she realized it wasn't truly enjoying or engaging with the content and that made her wonder how the behavior actually affects her feelings of boredom. Tam and her colleagues set up seven psychological experiments to study the connection between boredom and digital switching, really switched between seven different videos and then rated their experiences less satisfying, less absorbing and less meaningful than participants who watched a 10-minute video in full. Tam likens the difference to watching a film at the movie theater rather than at home which I think that's a pretty good analogy.

Mike Gorday:

You're constantly switching back and forth, you're effectively distracting yourself, whereas when you're fully immersed in a single experience, you might be more likely to appreciate it. So I don't know there's a lot of studies on this but I think I can understand what's going on with there, because when we're doing that kind of behavior, we're looking for something to entertain us, and any time we don't get what we want, we experience pain, so we try to move away with it. The more we can't find things, the more our threshold goes up. You remember?

Nathan Mumm:

original television.

Mike Gorday:

I mean, of course we do right man, we don't remember original television. We're not that old Well.

Nathan Mumm:

I've just—. But yes, when there was like seven stations locally.

Mike Gorday:

There were four stations.

Nathan Mumm:

Okay, there was four, and then there was there was like seven, because you had 11 and 13.

Mike Gorday:

You had CBS, nbc and ABC and then PBS.

Nathan Mumm:

And then you had Fox that came on out right, and then you had CW.

Mike Gorday:

Wow, you're talking about the 90s, buddy. I'm talking about the 70s.

Nathan Mumm:

But just think, then we didn't have a fast forward feature. Only until TiVo and these digital video recorders did we have the ability to go through something and not through something, so you'd have to watch all the commercials. I remember watching MASH with my parents at 7.30 every night on channel 11, ktsdw whatever it was.

Mike Gorday:

Okay, we don't need all that information.

Nathan Mumm:

I'm now going back and reminiscing about this, but you had to watch everything. There was no fast forward. If you wanted to get up and you wanted to fast forward. You'd have to change the channel.

Mike Gorday:

That's why, when you go to a convenience store, you pay three or four times more than you do at the grocery store, or the same thing it's convenience.

Nathan Mumm:

Okay, all right. Well, that ends our top technology stories of the week stories of the week. When we return, we have Nick Espinoza from Security Fanatics. He's going to be joining us to discuss Terragram. Should we be worried? You're listening to Tech. Time with Nathan Mumm. We'll be back after the commercial break.

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Nathan Mumm:

Welcome back to Tech Time with Nathan Mumm. Our weekly show covers the top technology subjects without any political agenda. We verify the facts and we do it with a sense of humor, in less than 60 minutes and, of course, with a little whiskey on the side. Today, mark Gregoire, our whiskey connoisseur, is back in the studio. Mark, what are we tasting?

Marc Gregoire:

today. Today is good old Jack Daniels but it's not the standard. It's good old. Jack Daniels. It's the 12-year Tennessee Whiskey Batch 2.

Nathan Mumm:

Okay, batch 2.

Marc Gregoire:

Batch 2.

Nathan Mumm:

What's the difference between Batch 1 and Batch 2?

Marc Gregoire:

Oh, you got to wait till the mumbles Different label. Wait till the mumbles Different label, wow.

Nathan Mumm:

Different label. Yeah, I'm sure it's a different label. It's the same label, except instead of saying Batch two must be the premier batch that gets a little bit extra treatment, because this is better tasting than the standard.

Ody:

Jack Daniels. Mark, tell me about your little mumble before the mumble.

Marc Gregoire:

I'm going to tell you what Jack Daniels says.

Nathan Mumm:

Okay, what does Jack Daniels say?

Marc Gregoire:

So introducing Jack Daniels' 12-year-old Tennessee whiskey. The Jack Daniels Distillery is one of the most complete whiskey distilleries in the world and able to craft premium whiskeys in a way that honors the heritage while highlighting the modern-day, world-class whiskey making. Now, to honor the distilleries past, their master distiller, chris Fletcher, handcrafted this age-stated whiskey and involved their whiskey process to achieve a rare flavor profile with sweet and creamy notes of pipe, tobacco, seasoned oak and butterscotch. Now this is from Brown Foreman. It's from the Jack Daniel Distillery in Lynchburg, tennessee. It's a Tennessee whiskey and I'm going to offend people, but that's a subclassification of a bourbon. Aging is 12 years. It is 107 proof. It's 80% corn, 12% malted barley, 8% rye. Msrp on this is $95. You can find this on the secret secondary for $200. If you go online, it's around $400.

Ody:

Oh.

Nathan Mumm:

Wow, okay yeah, $400.

Mike Gorday:

Holy cow Boy, that just really shot you right out from under. You didn't it?

Marc Gregoire:

I looked it up online if I wanted to buy it online. You know it ranges 300 to 400, depending where you're buying, but I saw it around 400 at a few online stores.

Mike Gorday:

This is. You know, this is just Brother Jack, Brother Jim.

Nathan Mumm:

This does not taste the same as the regular Jack Daniels that I normally taste.

Mike Gorday:

No.

Marc Gregoire:

But, 400 bucks a pop. It's classic.

Nathan Mumm:

Yeah, it makes sense.

Marc Gregoire:

The only difference I'll tell you, at least in terms of the bottling, between batch one and batch two. Batch one was a 2023 release, Batch two is a 2024 release. But we'll talk in the mumbles about the difference in their flavor profile.

Nathan Mumm:

Okay, ooh, all right.

Ody:

Flavor profile. Okay, ooh, all right, the flavor profile.

Mike Gorday:

Yeah, the first one's just cigarette smoke, not pipe smoke hey.

Nathan Mumm:

Okay, All right with our first whiskey tasting completed, let's move on to our feature segment. Today, on our technology expert segment, nick Espinosa is joining the show. He's a cybersecurity and network infrastructure expert. He consults with clients ranging from small business to the Fortune 100 level. In 1998, at the age of 19, nick founded Windy City Networks, which was later acquired in 2015. He then created Security Fanatics, where he is the chief security fanatic today. We welcome Nick to the Comcast video stream to start our next segment.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the segment we call Ask the Experts With our tech time radio expert, Nick Espinoza.

Nathan Mumm:

All right, nick. Welcome to the show. How are you doing, sir?

Nick Espinosa:

You know this is a Belveny 18 year and this week I'm drinking it straight from the bottle because I'm telling you this has been an insane week.

Nathan Mumm:

It's been an insane week on the cybersecurity aspect.

Nick Espinosa:

It's been an insane week. This is why we drink. This is why we drink. We should possibly attend meetings, and attend meetings every once in a while my. God.

Nathan Mumm:

All right.

Mike Gorday:

Attend meetings to drink.

Nathan Mumm:

That's right. Well, nick has some breaking news, but we're going to start with our main story and then he's going to go into some breaking news and we have some follow-up questions with that too. Let's do it All right.

Speaker 5:

Let's talk about Terragram as this is getting some attention Now it's not quite-.

Nathan Mumm:

Yep Terragram. This is a huge story that's I know about it on the sub little groups within the Telegram service that they have, but explain more to all of our listening audience what this is and why we should be afraid.

Nick Espinosa:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and unfortunately this is not nearly as fun as the Terror Dome, if you know that reference. But what we're going to start talking about first is the Institute for Strategic Dialogue, because they did a whole bunch of research and network analysis of telegram channels and essentially they are looking at what is called the Terrorgram Collective and essentially this is a disparate online network of neo-fascist accelerationists. In other words, they really want to bring down society as fast as they humanly can. And the Telegram Collective has been linked to arrests and attacks in the United States, canada, slovakia. They were recently prosecuted by the UK government. I mean, this is a huge, huge thing. And here's the problem with this, because obviously they're using Telegram, whose founder was recently arrested on a whole bunch of charges.

Nathan Mumm:

And France Yeahance arrested him right, yeah, yep, yeah yeah.

Nick Espinosa:

His girlfriend was like tweeting out where they were putting like the, the, the plane number is a whole mess, but wow, yeah, honest the guy, you gotta get a new girlfriend.

Nick Espinosa:

Yeah, she wasn't really into cyber security, yeah not so much, no, um, but good for us. So so here's what's happening with the Telegram Collective. They are obviously far-right extremists, want to burn the world down, but they now have a campaign where they are pushing essentially into far-right but not quite extremist Telegram channels to try to radicalize those populations. How do you push somebody further right? You introduce them to even further right propaganda, et cetera, et cetera. And so this ISD analysis showed that there were three major telegram channels on the far right that collectively have about 70,000 subscribers, so it's a target rich community, and it's essentially been serving as a gateway into far right terrorist content associated with the telegram collective. Now two of these channels function as like news aggregators quote, unquote and one of them actually claims to be part of or part of, steve Bannon's War Room podcast. So we're talking about far right individuals here that are actively motivated, and various pieces of evidence suggests that these three channels are part of a coordinated endeavor by the Terragram Collective to infiltrate and control these not quite mainstream but more mainstream than what they are, and so they are tied, interestingly enough, to a lot of different things. But if you want to understand who these people are, when one of the users on one of these three sites that they are actively trying to recruit from, criticized the Charleston shooter, that's Dylan Roof. He went in there and basically shot a whole bunch of African Americans. The administrator of this group, who is a member of the Terragram Collective, basically called Dylann Roof a hero for killing both the Black politician and also a Black rights activist.

Nick Espinosa:

Now, in another conversation, discussing an article about the Terragram's reaction to an attack on the North Carolina power grid a couple years years ago, if you recall, some person went shooting at power grids, knocking out power around this area in North Carolina.

Nick Espinosa:

Essentially, two Terragram-affiliated individuals were explicitly referencing essentially this person as if they knew this person directly. And so they have this big push now to start going after infrastructure in the United States and other countries to essentially cause discord and chaos because they want to bring essentially about the end of civilization so they can build a neo-fascist society, and so this is very active. They are in the process of recruiting and pushing people on the far right, even further right and from from basically having, like, let's say, a very negative ideology all the way to acting on that negative ideology, and so, by virtue of that, their acceleration is a very terrifying thing and these guys are growing. So it's it's a huge problem that we're seeing, and obviously right on telegram, which is a mostly private messaging system and so it's very hard to track and trace. So good work for the ISD there.

Mike Gorday:

It's like Manson times 10 or 100.

Nick Espinosa:

They're absolutely nuts. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nathan Mumm:

I wouldn't even say they're extremists. I would say they're just terrorists is the nicest way to say it. And what they have there. Let's be very clear that there's no intent there to make the world better. It's just let's destroy, let's destroy, let's destroy. Right and.

Nathan Mumm:

I'll say this the telegram teragram network is way worse than almost any dark web hacking site group or anything else that you go and listen into on the dark web. Compared to what these people are doing. On that, there is as much as there is all the dark webs, this horrible place. You got all these criminals that are doing this and that there's some truth to that, yes, but they're not planning to destroy the world. And how can I take out the most number of people and how can I only commit suicide myself while I take out a thousand people and come up with, yeah, it's horrible, it needs to be stopped and there needs to be some type of regulation that comes on in with any of these sites for these areas that just shut the stuff down.

Nick Espinosa:

Right. Well, and that, and that's the big, that's the big balance between Living in a society with free, free and open laws that gives you a right to privacy, versus the lowest common denominator, right. And so, if you're looking at that, that's why Signal and Telegram, threema out of Europe, all basically say, well, we don't log, we don't do anything because, overwhelmingly, most of us are not Terragram numbers right, most of us do not want to do this and we have to take the good with the bad. But that is the argument that governments and law enforcement is making, and the dark web is not exactly all sunshine and rainbows.

Nathan Mumm:

It's not either.

Mike Gorday:

It's not I think, if you say the dark web, I think that pretty much gives you an idea.

Nathan Mumm:

Well, you think that, but I was just saying is that that's always where they think the hoodlums hang out. But Telegram is free. Anybody can install Telegram on their phone at any time and be a part of these groups that are doing that.

Mike Gorday:

So it's not that you need that. They're essentially making the slope slipperier.

Nick Espinosa:

Yeah.

Nathan Mumm:

All right, Nick, you have a breaking story. Let's go to that first. And then I have the TP link and I still want to talk about Twitter or X after that. So let's go to your breaking stuff.

Nick Espinosa:

So so let's do this because this literally just came out. I literally just did my own podcast and video on this today, but this just broke a couple of hours ago and it's starting to hit mainstream media, so we're kind of ahead of the curve here. But a Chinese hacking group essentially exploited a bug to compromise several internet companies across the United States and abroad, and this is obviously a huge thing. So researchers at Lumen Technology essentially found a vulnerability in a product called Versa Director. This is a software platform used to manage services of customers of Versa Networks. That makes Versa Director, and so Lumen said that at the moment and there's going to be more they've identified at least four US targets. One non-US victim has also been identified. They're not naming these victims, but we're going to talk about that in a second, because Versa Networks issued an advisory, like a day ago that basically said that this vulnerability had been exploited in at least one instance. Now that prompted CISA, the Cybersecurity Infrastructure Security Agency of the United States, to then put this vulnerability on their list of known exploited vulnerabilities, meaning we have confirmation, including from CISA, that this actually has been exploited.

Nick Espinosa:

Now Lumen's blog post the ones that really brought this to light said that basically they have moderate confidence, which is pretty good, that the hacking campaign was actually done by Volt Typhoon. Now you may remember these guys from FBI Director Christopher Wray going in front of Congress and basically saying that these guys are hacking everybody. Their ability to physically wreak havoc on US critical infrastructure is essentially what Wray was talking about, and so this is a huge thing. So, by virtue of this, I went looking at Versa's website to see who their clients are. My God, this is why I busted out the good stuff, because we are talking in their client list Amazon, bp, samsung, verizon, adobe, american Express, versace, norton, lifelock, comcast, visa, virgin, barclays, mclaren the really cool car company and Capital One.

Nathan Mumm:

So- what's in your wallet.

Mike Gorday:

Yeah a Chinese hacking group apparently.

Nick Espinosa:

You know so. So this is a huge problem and I think this is going to unfold. This may be a major supply chain breach that we are just now getting wind of. It's going to be huge and again, I'll get. I'll see you at the 12 step meeting over this one, because it's. It's absolutely nuts.

Mike Gorday:

That's good to know.

Nathan Mumm:

Speaking of China. We're going to just continue with China.

Nick Espinosa:

Let's just talk more about China.

Nathan Mumm:

Let's talk about TP-Link products. Now I actually have two or three TP-Link products. I have a dongle device that I plug into a USB-C device to get network. I have a wireless router that can go from my actual connection of my copper from inside my house to outside my house with one of these devices. What is going on with the T-Link products?

Nick Espinosa:

Well, nathan, why do you like Chinese intelligence man? What are you doing? What?

Mike Gorday:

are you doing to me? We're sitting next to somebody who likes TikTok.

Marc Gregoire:

So what do you expect?

Nathan Mumm:

All right.

Nick Espinosa:

So here's what's going on. So two US representatives Representative Molinar, he's a Republican from Michigan and my homeboy, roger Krishnamoorthy, he's a Democrat, um, from Illinois. He's actually the one that sponsors me in the Congressional App Challenge as a judge every year. I'm a judge for that. Essentially, they head up the House Select Committee on countering Chinese government and they are basically calling on the Department of Commerce to investigate TP-Link over concerns that the Chinese government could just walk right into these things and then exploit products to spy on. Well, nathan, apparently. So, for the record, the lawmakers haven't really uncovered direct evidence. But here's the thing they're concerned that the Chinese government could easily compromise these routers and you know everything that Nathan's running in his home because they're manufactured in China and they have a ton of security flaws and vulnerabilities. Now, to be fair, we've seen a lot of basic manufacturers think Netgear a while back that have huge vulnerabilities. But because this is a Chinese company, this is an issue.

Nick Espinosa:

And, for the record, they're obfuscating things too, because TP-Link is actually headquartered in both Singapore and the United States. The company was originally founded in Shenzhen, china, back in the 90s. But here's the thing that is a very common tactic for companies out of China to use obfuscation for situations like this. So TikTok, for example, is doing something very similar their US-based data and Oracle data centers they're replicating to Singapore. They were caught doing that even though their executive said no, and they technically have a headquarters here. Timu is another one. They're technically, they have a whole bunch of shell companies and they're incorporated on like the Caribbean, like one of the nations down there. So, by virtue of that, that is no excuse for TP-Link, and we have these problems with HTC, huawei and a whole bunch of others that have been banned for use by the government. And so, nathan man, what are you doing?

Mike Gorday:

The Chinese tune in to watch all the.

Nathan Mumm:

I actually made sure all my TP-Link softwares were updated after I saw this come on in last night. So I have three devices that are online. One only goes on outside to where I do fireworks, and it's a wireless type of device.

Ody:

So I can set that back. It watches your chicken coop.

Nathan Mumm:

It watches. So the Chinese get all the access to my chicken coop.

Nick Espinosa:

is what they can see my chicken's running around, so they know I have a whole chicken coop hey, that's really really big those are american chickens, man you've got to make sure you know, and for the record, you might have patched it, but now you have 60 vulnerabilities and not 70. Okay, there you go there you go.

Nathan Mumm:

All right, I got to buy some new hardware the wife loves loves that. Guess what honey? We're buying a whole new router. I'm sure I'm sure.

Nathan Mumm:

All right Now. Last but not least, let's talk about Twitter or X, all right, so I just reamed them because we use like StreamYard as our streaming service for all of you that are watching, and I think we have. It looks like we have 600 plus people watching the show. Thank you for tuning on in and listening to Nick. They decided that they're going to only have premium accounts that are allowed to stream content online now. So we have removed ourselves from Twitter, slash X, and then you shared this information and I thought it was just perfect on how much I hate now and I used to hate Twitter because I was like, oh, that it was so liberal, they were doing everything, and now we've gone exactly opposite and I still hate it. So tell us what they are now doing. Which is the best subject of all for AI? Our buddy, mike Gorday, just loves AI. What is going on with Twitter and X?

Nick Espinosa:

And do you see how low this bottle is?

Nathan Mumm:

on my screen. That was full when you got on.

Nick Espinosa:

Yeah, that's right I forgot and I opened it two hours and I'm kidding, all right. So let's talk about twitter. Slash x, slash whatever elon's gonna call it in six months now. Essentially, they opted you in for training their artificial intelligence and they didn't tell anybody, myself included, because I went and looked, yeah what?

Nathan Mumm:

no way, no way, yeah, okay.

Nick Espinosa:

Now here's what's going on. Now. This is all coming to light by, basically, a group out of Europe called None of your Own Business and, quite frankly, they should be called None of your Own Business, but anyway. They filed nine GDPR complaints about X using personal data from over 60 million users in Europe, not to mention all of us here in the States to train Grok. Now Grok is a large language.

Nathan Mumm:

What that's so funny. Grok is so horrible, although I will spend. I spent time on the new AI graphics stuff, because you can just put anything you want in there and it'll just make graphics, but continue on, okay, okay. So this is training Grok, right, but continue on, okay.

Nick Espinosa:

Okay, so this is a training grok, right? Well, hey, it's learning off of tweets, so it's going to be terrible. So I mean, it's going to be the worst. Look at Microsoft Tay no comment. So now, according to none of your own business or NOYB X did not inform its users that their data was being used to train their AI. They didn't ask for consent either, which is 100% true, because I looked at my own American based Twitter account and, sure enough, I was opted in automatically. Now they are now alleging that this huge amount of data from the 60 million users in the EU, not to mention a bazillion of us here now is they? Basically Twitter does not have proper legal basis, and so, by virtue of that, they're able to be sued and fined, and so this is a huge issue. Now, if you want to fix this, I've got the instructions here and it's really really easy, but tell us, tell everybody on the air, tell everybody on the air, let's do this so if you've got a Twitter or X account, go to the web browser.

Nick Espinosa:

Uh, I'm not sure on the app. I did this on the web browser, it's just easier and essentially. Go to your profile, click More, click Settings, click Privacy and Safety. You'll see Grok and then just basically remove a checkbox and then there's an optional one that says Delete Conversation History, which is your history of using Grok. So more settings, privacy and safety, grok, kill it like a bad habit.

Nathan Mumm:

So click on your profile, go to Settings.

Ody:

And then, while you're in there, you should have this on your newsletter, or whatever.

Nathan Mumm:

We'll send this out on the show notes.

Marc Gregoire:

The other thing you do to protect yourself is just uninstall and never use it again.

Nick Espinosa:

Set it on fire. Just set your phone on fire.

Mike Gorday:

So Twitter and X should combine the name and have the X in front of the.

Ody:

Twix no Twix.

Speaker 3:

No, that's a good one. That is a good one, mine's better because, it comes out to be jitter oh.

Speaker 8:

Whoa.

Nathan Mumm:

Whoa, okay, all right, now we're going to get in trouble.

Mike Gorday:

We're going to have to edit out a bunch of our show. Thanks, nick, I always rely on your support, all right?

Nathan Mumm:

Nick Well, thanks for coming on the show. This was good. This was great breaking news and information. Now I have the next time you're on the show. I want to do all about elections. Okay, so we're going to talk about election fraud, election misinformation. Our next time we talk about we're going to be gearing up for the election and, oh boy, is it going to be an exciting time of the year. I want you to talk about everything Election's scary Besides my pillow guy that said that the election things didn't work and then he couldn't prove it but besides that, everything that is provable, factual, that we can talk about the elections.

Nathan Mumm:

Now for people that want to get in touch with you. Where can they find you? Not on X.

Ody:

Now you said I saw your tweet.

Nathan Mumm:

I saw an what do they call it? An X or tweet or whatever you call it, where you're just pushing LinkedIn. Now, that is the place which I like, that, but okay, where?

Nick Espinosa:

can we find you? Yeah, so find me on LinkedIn at Nick Espinoza. And also, for the record, if we're talking the elections, the audience now knows that you are literally trying to kill me with alcohol poisoning. So yeah, like, share, follow me. You know, LinkedIn, Twitter at Nick AESP. Youtube slash Nick Espinosa. Come say hi, Come hang out.

Nathan Mumm:

All right. Thank you from our expert in cybersecurity All right. That ends our ask the expert with Nick Espinosa. Now up we have Mike's mesmerizing moment. Welcome to Mike's mesmerizing moment. What does Mike have to say today? All right After we had that great information about all the China security stuff.

Mike Gorday:

We need more liquor.

Nathan Mumm:

We do need more liquor. We may have to fill up Mark's already out. He already said he needed another commercial break. All right, here we go. So why do we have such short attention spans nowadays, where we have to just swipe on everything what has happened to us?

Mike Gorday:

I think a part of this is what's basically mutual behavior modifications.

Nathan Mumm:

Okay.

Mike Gorday:

We have this sort of symbiotic relationship now where I think is very media driven, where the media is trying to get your attention and they're doing everything they can to get your attention. And back when you mentioned back in the old days when we were watching TV, we would sit through commercials, right, yep, but what happened? We would sit through commercials for a while and then we would use commercial breaks to go do other stuff.

Nathan Mumm:

Go to the restroom grab dinner.

Mike Gorday:

So they come up with funnier commercials that we want to sit and watch. And then you know, as time goes by, we're getting all this input, we're getting more and more input and just more and more input, and so getting our attention is a lot harder, because now we have filters that we're throwing up. I don't want to see this. I don't want to see this. So the marketing companies are still going to try and grab your attention, and now they're trying to keep it, and we just don't have enough energy to keep up with everything. So we start, we start shortening our, our ability to pay attention.

Marc Gregoire:

Okay.

Mike Gorday:

And I think that's a very big contributing factor to why and human beings aren't really known for their long attention spans anyway but, when you have this dynamic going on, it's just chipping away at our ability to do that.

Nathan Mumm:

All right, mike, thank you for that mesmerizing moment. Up next we have this Week in Technology, so now would be a great time to enjoy a little whiskey on the side. I think we're going to be refilling our glasses, so we're going to take a commercial break. See you after this. Hey, mike, yeah, what's up? Hey, so you know what. We need people to start liking our social media pages If you like our show, if you really like us you can use your support on Patreoncom.

Mike Gorday:

Or is it Patreon? I think it's Patreon. Okay, patreon, if you really like us, you can like us in.

Nathan Mumm:

Patreoncom.

Mike Gorday:

I butcher the English language.

Nathan Mumm:

You know you butcher the English language all the time. It's Patreoncom.

Mike Gorday:

Patreoncom. If you really like our show, you can subscribe to patreoncom and help us out and you can visit us on that Facebook platform.

Nathan Mumm:

You know the one that Zuckerberg owns, the one that we always bag on. Yeah, we're on Facebook too. Yeah, like us on Facebook. Do you know what our Facebook page is? Tech Time Radio. At Tech Time Radio. You know what? There's a trend here.

Mike Gorday:

It seems to be that there's a trend and that's Tech Time Radio, or you can even Instagram with us, and that's at Tech Time Radio.

Nathan Mumm:

That's at Tech Time Radio. Or you can find us on TikTok, and it's Tech Time Radio. It's at Tech Time Radio.

Mike Gorday:

Like and subscribe to our social media Like us today, we need you to like us. Like us and subscribe.

Nathan Mumm:

That's it. That's it, it's that simple.

Speaker 1:

And now let's look back at this week in technology.

Nathan Mumm:

All right, we're going back in the Wayback Machine here to August 24, 2011. Steve Jobs resigns as Apple's CEO. I have always said if there ever came a day when I could no longer meet my duties and expectations as Apple's CEO, I would be the first to let you know. Unfortunately, that day has come. Steve Jobs wrote Titled Letters from Steve Jobs. It was a short note from Steve himself, addressing to both Apple's board of directors and the Apple community. He said he could no longer meet his duties and expectations as the Apple CEO. With a few more keystrokes, he had resigned. Steve didn't want to give up all of his duties at Apple, though, and asked the board to allow him to remain as chairman. He told the board to name Tim as CEO and he thanked his team for their work and friendship. Apple CEO Steve Jobs resigned amid rumors of failing health, and he passed away 43 days later.

Nathan Mumm:

That was this Week in Technology. Have you ever wanted to have some Tech Time history, with over 200 weekly broadcasts spanning five plus years in video, podcasts and blog information? You can visit us at techtimeradiocom to watch our older shows. We're going to take a commercial break. When we return, we have the Mark mumble whiskery review.

Nathan Mumm:

See you after the break.

Speaker 5:

Hello, my name is Arthur and my life's work is connecting people with coffee. Story coffee is a small batch specialty coffee company that uses technology to connect people to each product resource, which allows farmers to unlock their economic freedom.

Speaker 1:

Try our Thank you with code TECHTIME. That's S-T-O-R-I-C-O-F-F-E dot com, the segment we've been waiting all week for Mark's Whiskey Mumble.

Marc Gregoire:

All right, buddy, august 27th, we are celebrating, not National Dog Day, is it? No, that was the 26th. No, no we hope all to get lucky today.

Nathan Mumm:

Oh, what is that?

Marc Gregoire:

It is International Lottery Day. And I believe yeah, I'm going to win the lottery.

Nathan Mumm:

I want to win the lottery. Wow, okay, the lottery, I thought it was going to be something better. All right. International Lottery Day.

Mike Gorday:

Because he said Getting Lucky Day.

Nathan Mumm:

Oh, okay, sure, oh wow, whoa Be careful.

Mike Gorday:

China's creating a profile on all your content. This is free radio. China can listen in all at once.

Marc Gregoire:

All right, Okay Now lottery or no matter what language you say it in, people around the world love lottery games. On International Lottery Day, we are all dreaming of dollars or euros, or pounds or lire. Today is a day we all try our luck and you never know, a life-changing sum of money or something special could be on the horizon for you.

Mike Gorday:

I've got to buy a lottery ticket on my way home. Yeah, I don't play the lottery. Well, he can't win if you don't play. Yeah, that's a good slogan I can't lose if I don't play either.

Nathan Mumm:

Okay well, you can't win if you don't play.

Marc Gregoire:

Well, you guys have been enjoying the Jack Daniels, so let's talk about some fun facts that maybe you didn't know about Jack Daniels. Okay, first of all, jack Daniels' real name was Jasper Newton Daniel, but everybody called him Jack or Mr Jack. Can you imagine ordering a Jasper Newton Daniel and Coke at a bar?

Nathan Mumm:

A Jasper, jasper, daniel, please Actually that doesn't sound that bad.

Mike Gorday:

That doesn't sound bad you get up with all the other crazy names.

Nathan Mumm:

Give me a.

Mike Gorday:

Jasper Okay.

Marc Gregoire:

Now also legend has it that Jack Daniel could not remember the combination to his safe Okay. I've heard this, so he got frustrated, kicked it, shattered his big left toe. He didn't want to see a doctor and he got gangrene. So eventually the toe was removed and he got more problems and then the leg was removed, eventually after the foot, and later on it went all the way up to the hip and then he died. Oh no, yeah, so don't go kicking your safe.

Nathan Mumm:

That's right.

Marc Gregoire:

Yeah, kick other things. National don't kick safety, that's right. Yeah, kick other things.

Nathan Mumm:

National don't kick safe day. That's probably coming on up in six weeks.

Marc Gregoire:

Kick trees, kick cars and then finally, we've talked about Buffalo Trace later being the oldest continuous running distillery in the country. But Jack Daniels is the oldest registered distillery in the US. In the US Some reports say the company was founded in 1875, but an official plaque on the property proudly displays Registered Distillery no 1, 1866.

Nathan Mumm:

That's kind of cool, though, come on, that's got to be really cool.

Mike Gorday:

Well, yeah, that was right around when the Civil War was ending, so everybody needed to drink, that's right.

Nathan Mumm:

And then, all of a sudden, you came to the turn of the century century, and then they forbid drinking because you couldn't drink all of a sudden.

Mike Gorday:

We don't need to go into, you know so why did I pick Jack Daniels 12 today, brother? Jack, this is good.

Marc Gregoire:

Why did I pick it on National Lottery Day?

Nathan Mumm:

Because we're going to get lucky.

Marc Gregoire:

No, okay, because I already got lucky. Oh, I won this bottle in a lottery and I'm very excited about it. Oh, I won this bottle in a lottery and I'm very excited about it.

Nathan Mumm:

Oh, okay.

Marc Gregoire:

Yeah, it's one of my whiskey lotteries. All right Now, this is one of my favorite whiskeys to come out in the last few years. I do prefer batch number one, which had more focus on fruit and sweetness, to balance the oak. However, this batch is still delicious. What is heavier focus, though, is on oak and spice, so that's the little difference between the batches, but they're supposed to be releasing these each year, so they started off two years ago with Jack Daniels 10. No, it was actually three years ago, jack Daniels 10. That was batch one. Then they came out the next year with Jack Daniels 10, batch two and batch number one of the 12. Then they came out with batch two and batch three of those, and they're supposed to be coming out with the Jack Daniels 14, as rumor says.

Marc Gregoire:

Hey, that sounds like iPhone 14 there you go, all right, anything else, that's everything unless you have questions.

Nathan Mumm:

No, well, you know, thank you for that. Mumble Whiskey and technology is such a great pairing, just like the term security and breach, and with that we're going to move on to our technology fail of the week.

Mike Gorday:

That was a fail. Oh, that was good.

Nathan Mumm:

We are out of time. Congratulations, you're a failure.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I failed. Did I yes, did I yes, did I yes, did I.

Nathan Mumm:

Yes, all right. Well, this week's failure comes to us from Georgia Tech's Georgia Institute of Technology. Now, georgia Tech failed to secure systems that handled sensitive government data. Researchers at the Georgia Institute of Technology, who received more than $1 billion in Defense Department contracts who received more than $1 billion in Defense Department contracts are under fire for allegedly not securing their computers and servers because they found it too quote-unquote burdensome. Since 2013, the Department of Defense has required any contract recipient who handles sensitive data to provide adequate security on their systems. Now over at Georgia Tech, however, the lab director failed to deploy and develop a security plan and pushed back on IT departments that wanted them to install these things called antivirus and anti-malware software the basics you mean like Norton.

Mike Gorday:

Yeah, just the basics. They just got hacked by China. Well, just the basics.

Nathan Mumm:

Now two employees, though in the IT department, filed a whistleblower lawsuit, and the Department of Justice joined the case against the school this week. Now they're actually against the nonprofit arm that handles the government contracts at the university, which is called the GTRC. According to the lawsuit, the lab at Georgia Tech dragged its feet on developing and implementing a system security plan as required by the terms of the government contract. When it finally did, in 2020, the plan did not include all covered laptops you don't need to cover your laptops, desktops or servers so it included everything else other than laptops, desktops and servers. So those IoT devices, I guess those IoT devices, I guess.

Nathan Mumm:

Now the Astrolavis Lab, which says its mission is to quote-unquote address the security of emerging technologies critical to our nation, also didn't install updates you don't want to do that or run antivirus or anti-malware tools on the desktop, laptop servers and network at the lab until December of 2021. But they decided to fabricate compliance reports that were sent to the Defense Department. Between 2019 and 2022, the GTRC secured more than $1.6 billion in government contracts, primarily with the federal government and specifically the Department of Defense. In 2020 alone, gtrc entered into more than $423 million in contracts. So here's the rules here. If you're going to have a contract with the United States government that says that you must have security measures in place, I don't think I would want to be in charge of the university's technology lab saying that we're going to bypass that because it's too troublesome.

Mike Gorday:

I'm pretty sure those guys don't work there anymore.

Nathan Mumm:

I don't think they do too. All right, Well, now we're going to move into the Nathan Nugget.

Speaker 1:

This is your Nugget of the Week.

Nathan Mumm:

Let's talk about how to check your social security number to see if it was part of a data breach. Now, websites that only require name, birthday, date and birthplace can help you figure out a person's information and if it was stolen and don't require you to submit your social security numbers. An estimated 2.9 billion records, including names, address and social security numbers, may be affected after the national public data confirmed it suffered a massive data breach, involving the personnel information of millions of Americans. Now the problem is many websites are claiming that they're here to help you and if you want to search if you have a security breach, to input your social security number and information to see if you've been breached. That sounds so stupid and you know what these are fake sites. This is almost an extension of letters. If you receive a call on the phone from someone that says that they want to see if your security number has been breached and they ask you for your social security number, hang up the phone. If you receive a text asking for social security numbers, hang up the phone.

Nathan Mumm:

And if you go to a website that says I can search for your social security number, get out of that website and go to two websites that are actually correct to do this, and I'm going to tell you what those are. It's mpdpentestercom. It only requires people to submit their first name, last name, state and birth date and it will see if your social security number has been taken care of. Mike, you're doing this right now. As I'm saying this, npdbreachcom also can search for information using your full name and zip code and your phone number. Do not go and see if your social security number was breached on any other sites. Again, that's NPDpentestercom and NPDbreachcom, breachercom and npdbreachcom. All of these are national programs that are in there to check to see if your social security number has been breached, without you having to interfere to give it to some of those crazy Chinese people. Now, mike, when you searched for your social security number, did you come up breached or not?

Mike Gorday:

I don't know. It sent me to this weird page.

Nathan Mumm:

Okay, what did you?

Ody:

say Mike, I did not hear that he's not in his mic.

Mike Gorday:

He's still looking right now it sent me to a weird page that wants me to pay stuff. Oh, no, well, with a minute left.

Nathan Mumm:

NPD pen tester P-E-N-T-E-S-T-E-R dot com.

Mike Gorday:

That's where I went, and it sent me to a pay scan.

Marc Gregoire:

My.

Mike Gorday:

Yeah.

Marc Gregoire:

They've been drinking a lot and I hear they're going to Applebee's after to have all-you-can-eat shrimp. All-you-can-eat shrimp Make sure you pay for one for each of you and don't expect it's one for the whole table, like the lady in Indiana. Yeah, we won't do that, we're good about it. Our guy— we got arrested for that.

Nathan Mumm:

Yeah, you know that was a great article and it was pretty funny Per person and with that the gentlemen today have been drinking Jack Daniels 10-Year Tennessee Whiskey, batch two.

Marc Gregoire:

It is 107 proof, $95 MSRP, but it can go all the way up to $400 if you try and grab it at online or a liquor store.

Nathan Mumm:

Thumbs up, thumbs up, thumbs up for Nathan. I think this is fantastic.

Ody:

Michael.

Mike Gorday:

You're thumbs upping for yourself For the whiskey. Okay, because I'm already a Brother Jack fan.

Nathan Mumm:

Okay.

Mike Gorday:

Best you've had this year, All right.

Nathan Mumm:

well, we'll see you guys next week.

Marc Gregoire:

Bye-bye Later.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us on Tech Time Radio. We hope that you had a chance to have that hmmm moment today. In technology. The fun doesn't stop there. We recommend that you go to techtimeradiocom and join our fan list for the most important aspect of staying connected and winning some really great monthly prizes. We also have a few other ways to stay connected, including subscribing to our podcast on any podcast service from Apple to Google and everything in between. We're also on YouTube, so check us out on youtubecom. Slash tech time radio. All one word. We hope you enjoyed the show as much as we did making it for you From all of us at Tech Time Radio. Remember mum's the word have a safe and fantastic week.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Nathan Mumm

Host
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Mike Gorday

Co-host
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Nick Espinosa

Guest